Talk:Arrowverse/Archive 12

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Stargirl, again

The CW released new Arrowverse character posters in August 3, 2020: CW has released seven new season posters for CW’s slate of Arrowverse shows (Supergirl, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, The Flash, Black Lightning, Stargirl, Superman & Lois) sporting a timely, coronavirus-themed look.[1]. Could it be considered an official statement that Stargirl is part of the Arrowverse? - Shiizhang (talk) 03:28, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Deadline calling it that does not make it official. Gonnym (talk) 06:15, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Maybe as of this moment, "Arrowverse" only refers to shows that take place on Earth-Prime. Kailash29792 (talk) 07:56, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Why Stargirl Isn't In The Arrowverse from Screen Rant. Sums up the issue nicely, and correctly. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:43, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks all. I agree with Screen Rant. - Shiizhang (talk) 01:52, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

We now have a CW promo video though that does include Stargirl in its CWverse so this may have to be revisited. EvWill (talk) 14:28, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

The CWverse and the Arrowverse arent exactly the same thing. Spanneraol (talk) 14:39, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Arrowverse is synonymous with CWverse for most watchers of the franchise, but for some reason a few of the editors here have a need to make a distinction. In the real world it is apparent to anyone watching the CW shows that Stargirl is part of the Arrowverse, meaning the entire franchise of shows on the CW. We don't need to wait for an actual crossover with The Flash or anything, but I know from Supergirl even that would not be enough for some. To me, the network including Stargirl in their Arrowverse marketing promoting their entire franchise means they view it as part of the entire franchise. I think some people are viewing this too much with In-universe eyes. Jmj713 (talk) 15:07, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Well the "arrowverse" is an in universe thing... the cwverse promos are just promoting all the shows on their network... it doesn't make them connected in the in-universe cannon. Spanneraol (talk) 16:18, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

No, the Arrowverse is a media franchise on the CW Network. In-universe they never say they're in "the Arrowverse". You would be right if you said Earth-1 or Prime Earth, but that's not what this article is about. This is about a real-world television franchise. Note that the latest CW promo did not include Swamp Thing. Even though it's a DC show airing on the CW. If it had, I would gladly include Swamp Thing in the Arrowverse as well. Jmj713 (talk) 16:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

An interesting comment in the source we're using for the ending of Supergirl states Supergirl [...] exists in the same universe as Arrow, The Flash, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, Black Lightning, Batwoman and recent DC Universe transplant Stargirl. -- /Alex/₂₁ 03:57, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Counterpoint. Again, we should go off of what happens on screen (all series except Stargirl are on Earth-Prime per Crisis) and past comments from producers which have stated it's all the Earth-1 series that are the "Arrowverse". That's why we didn't have Black Lightning here until Crisis, even though it debuted on the CW. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:27, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Again, I disagree. But seems there's just no sense in going over these points in circles. I can pretty much guarantee that Stargirl will have the same fate as Black Lightning, where this article will finally recognize it as part of the Arrowverse only after an official crossover, while for every regular viewer of these shows, especially I imagine with Stargirl's upcoming second season, the show's already part of it, obviously. So this article is always late to the game. Jmj713 (talk) 15:13, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Just a reminder that Wikipedia is (primarily) supposed to reflect what the secondary sources are saying--it's very slow. DonQuixote (talk) 15:24, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Exactly, secondary. Which is why I completely disagree with the statement that "we should go off of what happens on screen [...] and past comments from producers". Many secondary sources already speak about Stargirl as being part of the Arrowverse. Jmj713 (talk) 15:52, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

When the second season starts fully on the CW that may become the case. But at the moment, no, it is still not part of what we call the Arrowverse. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:15, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I agree that it shouldn't be considered here yet. Just an interesting comment I came across. -- /Alex/₂₁ 01:49, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Sure. And I acknowledge this is all confusing depending on how we're defining the scope of the article (the singular Earth-Prime series, or the larger multiverse). I always thought the article was based on the singular Earth-1/Prime universe, adding in series once they officially crossed over in very direct and close ways (hence Supergirl's inclusion when it was on Earth-38), and then we kept the "Multiverse" section for all the other series. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 13:12, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

John Wesley Shipp on Stargirl and "The CWverse"

John Wesley Shipp will be appearing as Jay Garrick on Stargirl and CW's press release states this will officially bring Stargirl [Brec Bassinger] into CW's post-Crisis CWverse alongside The Flash, Superman & Lois, Batwoman, Black Lightning, Supergirl, and DC's Legends of Tomorrow. Seeing this wording, and based on how the article is currently structured (to cover the series on Earth-1/Earth-Prime), is there merit to reformat the article to reflect the Arrowverse multiverse aka the "CWverse"? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:59, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

But also, EW's own article says: Crisis on Infinite Earths established that Bassinger's stars-and-stripes-clad teen hero resides on Earth-2 (with the Arrowverse shows all taking place on Earth-Prime now). (emphasis mine) - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:06, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I would wait on any major reformatting until we see how this plays out on the shows. Spanneraol (talk) 18:07, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, this is what we talked about earlier (see "Stargirl, again", above). Whether it's Arrowverse or CWverse, that's the term for the media franchise, NOT the Earth Prime "universe" that most of the CW DC shows part place in. Supergirl was an Arrowverse show, but technically took place on another Earth, not the "Arrowverse Earth". WIth this press release the CW has confirmed what was already apparent, that Stargirl is indeed part of the Arrowverse. They even spell it out: "With this move, The CW confirmed this will “officially bring Stargirl into CW’s post-Crisis CWverse alongside The Flash, Superman & Lois, Batwoman, Black Lightning, Supergirl, and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow.”" Can't be any clearer than that! Jmj713 (talk) 18:57, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Objectively speaking, the simple truth of the matter is that while we hold out hope that the CW's DC heroes will eventually cross over, we must be patient in waiting for that to happen. I missed the first season of Supergirl once not thinking they would and I was wrong. I held out for Black Lightning for 3 years before he inevitably crossed over, I believe the same will eventually happen with Stargirl who is on the new Earth-2. They tried calling it CW verse BEFORE the Crisis on Infinite Earths Crossover, HOWEVER, I believe it should not be recorded as fact into Wikipedia until the actual crossover happens. It may not, but we should hold out hope.

Maxcardun (talk) 12:36 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Recently a preview was uploaded somewhere that displayed John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick on Stargirl. If the Jay on Stargirl proves to be the Jay from The Flash, I propose that Stargirls show be included on the list of Arrowverse Shows.

Maxcardun (talk) 10:47 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Recurring cast and characters

I'd recommend we adjust the inclusion for recurring cast and characters, past being included only if they were main cast. My main thought is the character of Damien Darhk, who is very clearly a prominent character in the overall Arrowverse (including with his upcoming appearance), but we haven't included him as McDonough hasn't been credited as main cast. He has, however, recurred across three series. Perhaps we should adjust it to those that have appeared in two series (if they've been credited as main cast in at least one), or three series (if they've never been credited as main cast). Thoughts? -- /Alex/₂₁ 00:14, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Stargirl, take three?

DC is publishing a new mini-series, canon to the CW shows, as a crossover event, which includes Stargirl: https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-cw-dc-heroes-comic-crossover-earth-prime-series-batwoman-superman/ Jmj713 (talk) 20:16, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Lets wait for the comic to be released and see. Gonnym (talk) 20:52, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. At least on screen, there hasn't been any interaction between the two series like Supergirl had beginning in season 2, which was when we added that series here. All we've had for Stargirl was the "Crisis" part, but this comic event might help inform this since it is considered in-canon. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:28, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Naomi

While its been stated for years (during development and otherwise), we now have the director of Naomi stating that the series is a part of the Arrowverse. This can be read here. This article should reflect as much.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 06:11, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Just to note that a TV director is pretty much a technical role in the US industry. They have zero story input and just execute what they are given. The article itself doesn't really explain why this is an Arrowverse show. Gonnym (talk) 08:44, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Image choice

The primary image in this article is so outdated. It is from the earliest seasons of episodes in the shared TV universe. Shouldn't we be looking for a better option? Furthermore, there was the "rebranding" that took place post-Arrow of "The CWverse" that occurred. Shouldn't that also be discussed in this article?--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 06:15, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

If you have a suggestion for a better image, by all means present it. The name "CWverse" is already discussed in its own section. -- Alex_21 _TALK 12:46, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

An image doesn't have to be current, but rather one that represents the topic at hand, and I'd say the current one does just that, given no newer promotional material like this has been released since. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:42, 28 January 2022 (UTC)